In this email exchange, researcher Joseph Ball challenges historian Stephen Heder regarding the widely accepted estimates of the Khmer Rouge death toll, particularly Ben Kiernan's 20–25% figure. Ball contends that this figure is inflated by an omission of normal mortality. He suggests that Heder's 1980–1981 refugee survey points to a lower toll, around 10%, and critiques Heder's unreliable methodologies that he employed, including demographic extrapolations and mass grave analyses. Ball emphasizes the importance of survivor perspectives, noting that certain individuals, categorized as "base people," viewed the Khmer Rouge's rationing policies more favorably than the post-1979 Vietnamese-backed regime. Ball further urges Heder to make his full survey data available, emphasizing its crucial role in refining historical estimates.